RHIZOME DIGEST: 3.25.05

discussion

Posted March 24 2005 19:00

RHIZOME DIGEST: 3.25.05

RHIZOME DIGEST: March 25, 2005 Content: +announcement+ 1. Rhizome.org: Just opened: "The Connection that was. Or was it?" curated by Macky Wendell 2. Rachel Greene: Second Beijing International New Media Arts Exhibition and Symposium: IN THE LINE OF FLIGHT +opportunity+ 3. Cece Wheeler: Computer Arts Faculty Position +work+ 4. abe linkoln: linkoln loops (six from screenfull) +comment+ 5. Philip Galanter: Re: Internet2: Orchestrating the End of the Internet? +interview+ 6. Trebor: Interview with Eduardo Navas 7. Eduardo Navas: Re: Interview with Eduardo Navas + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Rhizome.org 2005 Net Art Commissions The Rhizome Commissioning Program makes financial support available to artists for the creation of innovative new media art work via panel-awarded commissions. For the 2005 Rhizome Commissions, seven artists were selected to create artworks relating to the theme of Games: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://rhizome.org/commissions/2005.rhiz">http://rhizome.org/commissions/2005.rhiz</a> The Rhizome Commissioning Program is made possible by generous support from the Greenwall Foundation, the Jerome Foundation, the Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 1. Date: 3.22.05 From: "Rhizome.org" <webmaster@rhizome.org> Subject: Just opened: "The Connection that was. Or was it?" curated by Macky Wendell Just opened … <a rel="nofollow" href="http://rhizome.org/art/member-curated/exhibit.rhiz?139">http://rhizome.org/art/member-curated/exhibit.rhiz?139</a> + The Connection that was. Or was it? + + Curated by Macky Wendell + I started poking around in the ArtBase and I came across my first piece, it really inspired me to create the exhibit I have here. The driving force behind the pieces I've chosen is the concept of possible connections. In some ways these pieces represent a version of the internet, a concept of being so close to someone yet so far away. Each piece deals with the connections between two or more people that could have been but weren't. + + + Rhizome ArtBase curation allows any Rhizome member to curate an exhibit from works in the ArtBase. Go to <a rel="nofollow" href="http://rhizome.org/all_exhibits.rhiz">http://rhizome.org/all_exhibits.rhiz</a> to see a list of all open exhibits. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Rhizome is now offering organizational subscriptions, memberships purchased at the institutional level. These subscriptions allow participants of an institution to access Rhizome's services without having to purchase individual memberships. (Rhizome is also offering subsidized memberships to qualifying institutions in poor or excluded communities.) Please visit <a rel="nofollow" href="http://rhizome.org/info/org.php">http://rhizome.org/info/org.php</a> for more information or contact Kevin McGarry at Kevin@Rhizome.org or Rachel Greene at Rachel@Rhizome.org. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 2. Date: 3.23.05 From: Rachel Greene <rachel@rhizome.org> Subject: Second Beijing International New Media Arts Exhibition and Symposium: IN THE LINE OF FLIGHT Begin forwarded message: > From: z <z@apiece.net> > Date: March 21, 2005 1:13:06 AM EST > To: rachel@rhizome.org > Subject: Second Beijing International New Media Arts Exhibition and Symposium: > IN THE LINE OF FLIGHT > > > ############## > > For Immediate Release: > > THE MILLENNIUM DIALOGUE - IN THE LINE OF FLIGHT > - Second Beijing International New Media Arts Exhibition and Symposium > > <a rel="nofollow" href="http://newmediabeijing.org">http://newmediabeijing.org</a> > > Presented by: > Tsinghua University, CHINA > ZKM | Center for Art and Media Technology, GERMANY > V2_ Institute for the Unstable Media, THE NETHERLANDS > > China Millennium Museum > May 31 2005 â?? June 30 2005, BEIJING, CHINA > No.9 Fuxing Road > Haidian District Beijing, China. > post code:100038 > > In collaboration with: > Ars Electronica Center, AUSTRIA > NOVAMEDIA, Australia's New Media Arts Agency, Australia > NTT InterCommunication Center, JAPAN > BANFF Center for the Arts, CANADA > Media Center for Art and Design, SPAIN > New York Institute of Technology, USA > > Exhibition > With the resounding success of the First Beijing International New Media Arts > Exhibition and Symposium in May of 2004, 2005 sees another stellar gathering > of the international new media art community in Beijing. Under the auspices of > Millennium Dialogue, and hosted by Tsinghua University, Chinaâ??s leading > educational and research university, co-presented by ZKM, Center for Art and > Media Technology of Germany and V2_ Institute for Unstable Media of the > Netherlands, in collaboration with Ars Electronica Center of Austria, > NOVAMEDIA of Australia, NTT InterCommunication Center of Japan, Canadaâ??s > Banff, Medi@austria from Austria and New York Institute of Technology of the > United States, the Second Beijing International New Media Arts Exhibition and > Symposium takes to the Chinese capital a highly charged new media art > exhibition revolving on the central theme â?? IN THE LINE OF FLIGHT. > > > In the Line of Flight â?? Transcending Urbanscapes > > Chinese modernization is, to much extent,Â a process of urbanization. Rapid > developments in urban areas mark a significant transformation creating > fundamental reconfigurations of ethnic demography, city topography, and social > processes, as well as cultural and artistic production and reception. Like in > many other Asian countries, nascent urban centers in China are increasingly > permeated by the latest communication and distribution infrastructures, > swiftly becoming global high tech nodes in ways never seen before. > > In an ever-expanding technological urban culture cell phones, television, > internet, radio, cinema and photography mediate and construct our everyday > experiences. They affect the very foundation of social, cultural, economical, > scientific and political constructs in contemporary urban life. > Â  > At the heart of this transformation lie excitement, anxiety, aspiration, > perplexity, hope and desire. Artists both within China and from around the > world are exploring this new mediated public domain extensively. By developing > new artistic strategies and means of expression, they exploit the specific > qualities and potentials of these media. They engage, reflect, and critique > the new technological urban settings and raise questions about the > contemporary condition engendered by media technologies. > Â  > Titled â??In the Line of Flightâ??, the Second Beijing International New Media > Arts Exhibition seeks to explore the multiple emotions and complex feelings > toward the phenomenon of this historic challenge in China and to examine the > precedents of its global neighbors, by investigating media technologies in the > wake of their disruptive and deterritorializing potential. > Â  > The International Exhibition comprises works selected by a group of > distinguished curators, each giving his/her own insightful approach to the > broad thematic structure, rendering a diversity of interpretations and raising > issues imminent and critical to the fluctuating social, cultural and economic > circumstances of urban life across the world. â??In the Line of Flightâ?? presents > representative works of telematics, responsive environment, net art, large > scale interactive installation, software art, wearable technology, and other > new forms facilitated through media technologies. The exhibition suggests > integrity in diversity, possibilities derived from multiplicity, urbanity in > locality. It testifies to a new aesthetic sensibility accentuated by the > struggle of city dwellers, proposing new perspectives on contemporary urban > conditions from around the world. > > > Curators (In alphabetic order) > > * Alex Adriaansens > * Sara Diamond > * Antoanetta Ivanova > * Yukiko Shikata > * Peter Weibel > * Zhang Ga > > > Academic Exhibition > > Parallel to the International exhibition, a number of internationally renowned > academic institutes will present their faculty and student works as an > academic exhibition. > > > Symposium On New Media Art Practice and Education > > Section One: New Media Art as Global Cultural Alchemy > Media Art as global laboratory experimentation foregrounds new purview of > artistic production. Since the early 90s, rapid technological innovation > according to Mooreâ??s law, has reshaped the world in which constructs of > politics, economics and culture undergo significant transformation and > transmutation, prompting imminent questions as to what constitutes art in an > Information Society. Historically, technological progress has also expanded > the operational realm of art itself. The Cartesian view of the world > culminated in the illusory rendering of Realism, the image deconstruction of > Modernism was a result of rapid mechanical reproducibility at the turn of the > century. The current Information Society obscures the boundary between the > virtual and the real, alludes to an interoperability of object and subject, > and embarks on an expedition into micro nano-biospheres and macro space > warfare. It signals an epoch that uneasily oscillates between multiple forces > in light of Heisenbergian Principle of Uncertainty in its most complex > interpretation. No longer sufficient are simple questions of ideology, > economical determinism, the new condition demands ad hoc improvisation, rapid > prototyping, instantaneous sampling. A new kind of alchemy that operates not > only on the production of objects but also on the (re-)construction of > subjectivity, is yet to be born. This is a laboratory experimentation > exercised both locally and globally in collective efforts as well as > individual endeavors. New Media Art working at the crossroad of technology and > innovation is inevitably assuming the role of alchemist of the 21st century. > > Urban environments epitomize these technological advancements on a global > scale, both creating implosion in developed countries and explosion in > developing countries. The dynamic and sometimes traumatic transformations of > evolving urban cultures have also provided test beds and become catalysts for > new visions of artistic intervention and creative potential. It is against > this unique backdrop that many artists and theorists engage in their practices > and experimentation. > > The â??New Media Art as Global Cultural Alchemyâ?? conference hosted by In the > Line of Flight is a forum where artists, curators and theorists come to > investigate the multiplicities of new media art, explore diverse > interpretations of its practices under the complex contemporary circumstances. > Participants from around the world will engage in focused discussion and > debate. > > > Section Two: Understanding Media Art Education > As digital media plays an ever-increasing role within a broader range of > academic domains the territory of media art education within the university > also begins to expand and cross disciplinary borders. There is an explosion of > educational methodologies and models that attempt to situate electronic media > practice and theory within the mainstream academic subjects of art, design and > architecture through the formation of new departments and curricular > structures. New relations between the humanities studies and the sciences are > proposed in these programs. The developments of new models of media art > education are still in a state of experimentation and thus demonstrate a > tremendous diversity of approaches. How and what can we learn from these early > attempts and from their interdisciplinary characteristics to develop mature > models? > > To what extent does interdisciplinarity define the emergence of new aesthetic > practices and working academic methodologies? How are these framed within the > confines of traditional media and design departments? What formal and informal > structures are needed to construct interdisciplinary and dynamic programs > within (or outside) the specialized learning mechanism that has been dominant > over the last hundreds of years. How to develop new educational models in the > arts that are able to deal with the complex social, technological and cultural > settings of our increasingly technological culture against which media art > practice is contextualized? And how to maintain artistic autonomy in an > interdisciplinary backdrop where business becomes increasingly intertwined > with the academic funding resources? > > â??Understanding New Media Art Educationâ?? will be featured as the second half of > the conference hosted by In the Line of Flight aiming to create a dialogue > among institutions and students addressing the issue of the integration of new > forms of artistic media practice within the academic context. Speakers from > around the world will present challenging models and thoughts on this topic. > The conference theme will be situated within the Chinese context to create a > fruitful exchange during the second day of the symposium. > > Artistic Directors: > Lu Xiaobio, Zhang Ga > > > Supported by > Ministry of Culture, P.R. China > Ministry of Science, P.R. China > Ministry of Information Technologies, P.R. China > Ministry of Education, P.R. China > China Art and Literary Association > Chinese Artists Association > Ministry for Science, Research and Art, Baden - Wurtemburg, Germany > Ministry of Education, Culture and Science, Netherlands > Mondriaan Foundation, Netherlands > Australian Government > Australia - China Council > Foreign Affairs Canada > Banff Centre, Canada > Embassy of Canada, China > Alberta Innovation and Science, Canada > Novamedia, Australia > > > Media Partners > China News Agency > CCTV (Central China TV > Peopleâ??s daily > China Education Daily > GuangMing Daily > China Youth Daily > Beijing Youth Daily > Wenhui (Shanghai) > Morning Post > Art Observer > Art and Design > China Intellectual Rights Repoarts > China Entrepreneur > Tsinghua University TV and News Center > Visual China > New China Daily > Science Daily > Science Periodical > China Library News > China Culture Daily > CCTV â?? Digital Arts > CCTV Cultural News Channel > Radio China Cultural News > Beijing TV > CG Magazine > Vision Magazine > New Tsinghua Magazine > Tsinghua TV > MUSIC Magazine > Beijing Stars Daily > Capital Daily > Beijing Evening News > Time Out Beijing > > > Symposium schedule will be announced soon + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Rhizome Member-curated Exhibits <a rel="nofollow" href="http://rhizome.org/art/member-curated/">http://rhizome.org/art/member-curated/</a> View online exhibits Rhizome members have curated from works in the ArtBase, or learn how to create your own exhibit. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 3. Date: 3.23.05 From: Cece Wheeler <wheelerce@aol.com> Subject: Computer Arts Faculty Position Dynamic and fast-growing Computer Arts program is looking for a full time instructor to teach animation, 3D modeling and web design. The Computer Arts Department combines design and technical skills with a concept-based approach to new media design. Qualifications Required: a BFA or BA in computer arts, multimedia or related field. Related occupational experience and a commitment to serving the needs of a diverse student body. Demonstrated professional activities. Good recommendations. Qualifications Preferred: Significant coursework in the areas of animation, 3D model rendering, web design. THOMAS NELSON COMMUNITY COLLEGE is a comprehensive, multi-campus community college in historic southeastern Virginia at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay. It serves the cities of Hampton, Newport News, Poquoson, and Williamsburg and the counties of York and James City. The College had a fall enrollment of 8,512 head count and 4,773 FTE. TNCC is a learning centered college seeking individuals to complement our quality faculty. The successful candidate must be committed to working with a diverse student body residing in a multicultural setting and to utilizing technology in the delivery of instruction. Expectations of Successful Candidates: Demonstrated teaching skills, commitment to the community college philosophy, strong interpersonal and communication skills, a commitment to diversity issues, a strong orientation to teamwork, the ability to work effectively with a non-traditional student body at an urban community college, demonstrated professional activities, excellent recommendations, and familiarity with computers and the application of technology to instruction. General Responsibilities of Teaching Faculty: Teaching load of 12 credits per semester which may include courses on and off campus, day and evening, weekdays and weekends, providing courses utilizing distance learning, participating in curriculum and course development and assessment, providing academic advising, and participating in division and college committees. Responsibilities include: Teach courses in computer arts. Advise curricular students. Participate in course and curriculum development. Serve on college committees. Rank and Salary: $33,835 - $47,877 Rank and salary commensurate with education and experience. Starting Date: August 16, 2005 Application Process: A State of Virginia Employment application form, a letter of application, resume, personal copies of all college transcripts, names of three references with current addresses and telephone numbers must be submitted to the Human Resources Department. A review of Application materials will commence on April 18, 2005 and will continue until the position is filled. Faxed, e-mailed or electronic applications will not be accepted. Application packages are to be mailed to the following address: Thomas Nelson Community College, Human Resources Department, P.O. Box 9407, Hampton, VA 23670. State of Virginia Employment Application may be obtained by calling 757-825-2728. The application form can also be downloaded from <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.dhrm.state.va.us">http://www.dhrm.state.va.us</a>. Thomas Nelson Community College is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer and actively seeks applications from women and minority candidates. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 4. Date: 3.19.05 From: abe linkoln <abe@linkoln.net> Subject: linkoln loops (six from screenfull) <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.screenfull.net/stadium/2005/03/kill-beyonces-army.html">http://www.screenfull.net/stadium/2005/03/kill-beyonces-army.html</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.screenfull.net/stadium/2005/03/listen-is-silent-rearranged.html">http://www.screenfull.net/stadium/2005/03/listen-is-silent-rearranged.html</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.screenfull.net/stadium/2005/03/thats-more-like-it-45k-lsd-mix.htm">http://www.screenfull.net/stadium/2005/03/thats-more-like-it-45k-lsd-mix.htm</a> l <<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.screenfull.net/stadium/2005/03/account-of-what-trully-happened.h">http://www.screenfull.net/stadium/2005/03/account-of-what-trully-happened.h</a> tml> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.screenfull.net/stadium/2005/03/bboy3000.html">http://www.screenfull.net/stadium/2005/03/bboy3000.html</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.screenfull.net/stadium/2005/03/open-tag-1_111067417399556154.html">http://www.screenfull.net/stadium/2005/03/open-tag-1_111067417399556154.html</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.screenfull.net/stadium/2005/03/minimalist-is-my-new-main-thing.ht">http://www.screenfull.net/stadium/2005/03/minimalist-is-my-new-main-thing.ht</a> ml + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 5. Date: 3.21.05 From: Philip Galanter <list@philipgalanter.com> Subject: Re: Internet2: Orchestrating the End of the Internet? Thanks back to you Jon for furthering the discussion of some of the tough issues raised by the new networked communication technologies. To be clear, my intent in my first response was to address the question posed in the subject line. That is, I wanted to make the point that Internet2 is not orchestrating the end of the internet, and that in fact they are extending and enhancing the very virtues that you and many others hold to be valuable. I tried to do this by correcting a number of technical misunderstandings that seemed to indict Internet2 as a villain, when in fact the opposite is the case. So I hope it won't be too disappointing if I don't respond to your second post in a point by point manner. It seems to me that most of the concern there is really more about the MPAA and the broadcast flag than Internet2. Internet2 is indeed talking to the MPAA, but they are talking to literally hundreds of organizations and interest groups. Some of those groups hold opposing views and differing visions of the future. It is in everyone's interest that Internet2 provide a forum for as broad a discussion of advanced networks as possible. And I don't want to be put in the position of defending the broadcast flag. I can see issues and interests on both sides, and find myself somewhere in the middle. But I'll toss in a few thoughts nevertheless. First, it's important to remember that more than one market force is at play here. Yes the MPAA (and RIAA) wants to protect the property rights of those who create and market media. But the consumer electronics industry doesn't want to see the end of home recording. The carrier companies (cable, satellite, ISPs, etc) don't either. And consumer groups still have a voice. (And so does our democratically elected government.) I'm convinced that when all is said and done the typical consumer will still be able to record at home for all the fair use reasons currently available to them. The MPAA has said that even they want home recording to be preserved. Will there be transitional problems? Will old equipment become obsolete? Sure…as always. Ask anyone who went with Beta rather than VHS. Or audiophiles who thought the Elcassette would lead them to sonic nirvana. Such is the nature of progress. Next, regarding hackers and the ability to innovate and experiment with broadcast media. The broadcast flag, to my best understanding, has to allow for not only hardware recording devices, but also computers used as home entertainment centers. Can you imagine Microsoft not demanding this? And to keep the competition fair third party software vendors will have to have some way to create products as well. As a programmer what this says to me is that operating systems will have to provide a software layer that will allow playing/recording/skipping/looping video media while preventing (or attempting to prevent) massive piracy. Those software hooks will have to be available to any programmer…even kids and hackers…because ultimately they will be impossible to hide anyway. Perhaps someone else will come up with an example, but under such a scenario I can't imagine functionality that is short of piracy and yet unavailable to random programmers. I'll admit that there is some speculation in the above…but this is all a work-in-progress and there is speculation on all sides…even on the EFF site. Getting back to Internet2. A few quick points. "Pick-up collaboration" on Internet2 is indeed live and well. But guess what? Artists didn't invent it. Scientists are leading the way there. They are also the ones who invented the World Wide Web. Nevertheless, both are available to artists as open platforms for creativity. Have at it! And yes, the Internet2 Commons has a fee attached to it, but you have to understand what you are getting. Standard videoconferencing (with Polycoms and Tandbergs and so on) is limited to 3 or 4 sites at a time. If you want to include, say, a dozen locations you need a device called an MCU. Along with the MCU hardware cost there are also maintenance costs and administrative hassles. For many schools buying and supporting their own MCU's is prohibitively expensive. And contracting for external MCU services is really expensive too. For many schools the Internet2 Commons provides very useful functionality. Rather than tax every Internet2 member they decided to fund the effort by only charging the schools that want to use it. Compared to the commercial alternatives the I2 Commons fees are a really good deal. There are, of course, other ways to videoconference. iChat on the Mac is cool…as long as everyone else is using a Mac and you only need to connect to a couple other people. The Access Grid is great, but it requires multicast (perhaps via a unicast gateway) and isn't exactly plug and play or commonly used. For connecting random sites nothing is as ubiquitous as good old H.323 and H.320. Check out last years megaconference. *372* sites on every continent but Antarctica connected via video and voice. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.megaconference.org/">http://www.megaconference.org/</a> Regarding putting low level DRM into routers. All I can suggest is looking into what it would really take to get such a protocol, or *any* new extension, into IPv6. At most Internet2 could sponsor a proposal…not that I think they ever would. And then there would be an *international* standards process to contend with. I don't care what the MPAA may or may not want…it just ain't going to happen. Finally, regarding the better documented Internet2 performing arts events. You have to remember that many of these events are designed for a certain kind of setting. More often than not the setting is a large conference for an audience of several hundred university technicians and administrators. Such a setting invites a rather standard "concert" type presentation…and comfortable mainstream content. But this is hardly built into the network! And the master class thing may not be your cup of tea, but in large parts of the country distance education, and access to the talented people that tend to migrate to urban centers like NYC, is a significant breakthrough. There are all kinds of other options waiting to be explored. Way back in 1999 NYU's first use of Internet2 involved small performances, intimate improvisations, and other artistic "pick up" experiments with theater students at MIT. More recently NYU Professor and performance artist Barbara Rose Haum did a very nice piece with collaborators at the University of Kansas. Personally, when it comes to MARCEL I am less interested in more academic theory. What I'd love to see MARCEL spawn is more actual art. And I am sure that as soon as an Alan Kaprow for the network age wants to reinvent what we mean by "art" and "performance" Internet2 will be there for them. Phil + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 6. Date: 3.21.05 From: Trebor <trebor@buffalo.edu> Subject: Interview with Eduardo Navas Listening To Yourself While Playing With Others An interview with Eduardo Navas (adjusted by Trebor Scholz) As part of WebCamTalk1.0 <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.newmediaeducation.org">http://www.newmediaeducation.org</a> Trebor Scholz: In February 2003 you founded Net Art Review (NAR), a collaborative weblog reviewing media art that for the most part is web-based. There are several fairly large conversational fora that address media art. New media researchers and educators already greatly benefit from mailing lists like Empyre, FibreCulture, <nettime>, New-Media-Curating, Rhizome, Rohrpost, Sarai, and Spectre. What was your motivation for Net Art Review? Eduardo Navas: I noticed that there was debate about technological issues and exchange about cultural theory, but rarely were there detailed writings focusing on the actual art in the form of reviews. Most online artists would release their own statements, and it would often end at that. Sometimes casual comments would follow by members of the different lists, and other times there would of course be heavy exchange of ideas and that was good; regardless, there was no consistency in how this criticism happened, which is good for lists but also made it obvious that there was room for other forms of critical practice online. For example, contributions to Rhizome were often very good (and still are) but at other times loose and/or ended in flame wars: people flooding the list with personal insults. There were/are good articles on C-Theory and Switch, as well as on <nettime>, which always had very intense exchanges. But mostly these discussions around cultural issues do not directly focus on specific artworks. And the Empyre list is also quite strong with its focused, month-long conversations. I noticed that there was a need for a specific type of criticism, which was actually being met in part by Neural.it and Random, both in Italy. (See references for list of online journals.) Net Art Review was launched early in 2003, a few months after Rhizome became a membership pay-service. Rhizome was heavily criticized for the introduction of membership fees. There was the perception that Net Art Review was developed in reaction to Rhizome's decision, but I never saw it like that. I had been trying to set up a critical forum for about a year, but did not get to invest sufficient time into it before the beginning of 2003. The criticism of Rhizome probably gave Net Art Review some extra attention, but it was more complex than that. So, to reiterate, Net Art Review offers a focus on artwork, something that I see is missing in relation to online culture. Rhizome's net art news comes the closest to that but I was not satisfied with it because their texts are limited in length. They do not focus on criticism, but mainly on descriptions of the works with some supportive commentary. Net Art Review was founded as a small, decisively low-tech, very simple web portal that focuses on content production without a feedback option. The feedback option was not a common feature of blogs at the time. A response option would also demand more time from the administrators: Lora McPhail (Los Angeles), me (San Diego) and more recently Molly Hankwitz (Brisbane/ San Francisco). It will also make things more expensive. But when readers contact us we correspond quickly. Blogging boomed in early 02 (and apparently still is increasing in popularity)– a weblog seemed like a good tool to try out the idea of a review site. However, we hope to develop the site further. The regular contributors communicate through a dedicated mailing list. Lora McPhail, our editor-in-chief, coordinates the writings and oversees the mailings that are sent to us as either submission or concerns. Molly Hankwitz is contributing editor and is in charge of the weekly features. Garrett Lynch is working on a new, more efficient set-up so that we can eventually leave the commercial Blogger service behind. It is important to note that Net Art Review is open for anyone who is invested in new media practice and wishes to share her opinion. (For additional contributors see references.) <a rel="nofollow" href="http://netartreview.net">http://netartreview.net</a> TS: Some technologists and cultural producers may question the title "Net Art Review" as they perceive Internet Art as something that they left behind us. Net Art fortunately rather quickly overcame its initial hype and is now one option among many others in the realm of "new media art." I use "new media art" as an operable term with the clear understanding that, of course, today's new media will be tomorrow's "old" or "dead media." It does not statically refer to any particular technology. It's dynamic in its reference. Reviews in Net Art Review do not entirely focus on Internet Art but the title of the review site asserts set boundaries. Did you intend this focus? EN: I ran the name by a few people who have been part of new media art communities for a long time, some of them said that the title was limiting, referring to something that was left behind, or that it could place a label on things that were not related to net art. Net Art Review addresses art in the networks. It is about net art without the dot. It was odd that when I mentioned the term many referred to the net.art group specifically, which demonstrated their influence. For me, net art refers to activities that function online and challenge the borders of web-based practices. We can include online hypertext literature, early blogging (starting about 1997), e-mail art, and online activism just to name a few areas. If you notice, the description on the website reads: "Net Art Review focuses on net-art and its crossover to other fields in new media." A lot of the featured work uses online technologies as both medium and tool (Christiane Paul uses this approach to consider work in her book, see list). Reviewers write about anything that is considered creative online practice. They also address offline exhibitions and conferences, which I think is appropriate. Once people start to look for specific definitions, it becomes obvious very quickly that even terms such as "netart," "net art" or "net-art" are not that easy to define. This is something that Julian Stallabrass does a good job in explaining in his book Internet Art The Clash of Culture and Commerce on the Internet. Here he shows that even among the early Internet artists and critics there was debate about what "net art" could be or what it should do. So, I do not completely understand the ambivalence to the term by some people. At this point the term "net art" is becoming more widely used. When I founded Net Art Review I considered it a good "bridge" to those researchers not yet familiar with net art. Net Art Review is usually listed among the first ten hits for the search term "net art," which gives it a wide audience. Once the surfer arrives we provide links to all kinds of new media resources, not only "net art." I want to further comment on this idea of not using certain terms, or wanting to leave them behind; it might have to do with artists being somewhat aware and ambivalent of the regressive listener, as described by Theodor Adorno in his ideas of modern music. The regressive listener, in general, wants to be served new material, which in reality is what they had already been served in the past. We, of course, see this in Hollywood movies, but this phenomenon really permeates throughout all specters of society. Artists' practice is often driven by the ideology of constantly moving forward, trying new things. But in order to achieve this, it appears that some would like to destroy or dismiss the past. They feel that the past limits them from exploring the new. This is not too far-off from how Adorno sees the regressive listener trying to destroy the old demanding something that is new. The new in the end is a reconfigured version that makes them feel progressive. According to Adorno, they are "regressing" to that which they already know. I understand that artists might not want to be related with certain terms because once they or their work are recognized as a paradigm this starts to limit the artists' options to experiment due to the process of historiography that is put into effect. However, if we consider Adorno's position (which I know is quite difficult for many, including myself) the tendency for artists is to often change the tools and the name of what they do, but they are re-using the same ideological model–the model of the avant-garde, which has been repeated and re-proposed several times in different forms either as "myth" of something that only happened in the past, or as something that is always in action. This depends on whose history you read, of course. But this is pure regression either way. So, I think worrying about terms is a way to dismiss something that will only be reconfigured to make people comfortable. I propose a listener who does not try to destroy the old, but one who actually moves forward with it. If it gets old and people want to move on, it is because the ideology of innovation is demanding this of them. "We are past net art"– that's regressive listening. This starts to sound a lot like "painting is dead"- an art world clichÃ?Â© that has been brought up too many times, yet painting is alive and kicking. In the end, it is useful for people to be able to latch on to terms, and reinvest in them. If we consider Guy Debord's theories on the festival, we learn that we live in a "spectacular time," and that in the past people (mainly prior to invention of the clock) lived in what he calls "cyclical time." Festivals demand that people reenact their "history" at the moment of the gathering. However, this does not really happen in contemporary culture today. Even though it appears it does when people gather for different holidays- those meetings are dependent on the clock, on a measurement striving for perfection, asking us to move forward linearly and not in a circle. "Progress" is defined on linear terms, even after the self-reflection postmodernism supposedly made possible. How many times can you ask the same question? Or actually wait for nothing? If this sounds boring it may be because the ideology of regression is deep inside of us. I am not saying that we should go back to cyclical time, but we should understand what we are proposing when we try to move past a term because it has had its day. Guy Debord. Society of the Spectacle (see chapters V, VI) <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.bopsecrets.org/SI/debord/">http://www.bopsecrets.org/SI/debord/</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.huzzam.com/etext/debgsociespec/">http://www.huzzam.com/etext/debgsociespec/</a> TS: Earlier you mentioned that accessibility is a large part of what draws you to net art. When talking about access to technology we cannot leave out the vast discrepancies between the digital have and have-nots. How do you take this divide into account? EN: This is actually an issue I am very aware of. Through NAR I collaborate with people in different countries to make new media more accessible for as many people as possible, by providing material in various languages. We do not use translation tools mainly because they are unable to translate the subtleties of language. Translation is not just about exchanging the proper terms, but about considering the sensitivity running in between the lines of text. By also presenting texts that are not in English we show the real limitations on the web: the politics of language barriers. TS: In your recent text "The Blogger as Producer" you draw a parallel between Walter Benjamin's observation of the popularization of printed media. According to Benjamin readers became "collaborators" as their tastes and desires dictated the emergence of new columns in newspapers at the time. This way the reader felt in touch with her culture and became an author of sorts. In your essay you say that Benjamin suggested the inclusion of news writing into the history of literature. We are currently facing a similar challenge in which many online forums struggle to achieve the same kind of legitimization that more established peer-reviewed scholarly print magazines have developed. New media researchers find many different forms for their work and weblogs are extensively used. Was this struggle to legitimize online content part of your founding idea for New Art Review? EN: Net Art Review (NAR) was founded with the idea of legitimization in mind. The site would need to contend with its perception by different communities. In the end, I realized that the online resource would position itself based on the rigor, seriousness, and shortcomings of the site which is grounded in the commitment of its collaborators, its authors. Our investment is the delivery of material online. Academics may look at our work not so differently from the way Axel Bruns observes online activity; by the way, I am very much interested in his anthropological approach to the blogosphere that I read in one of your recent interviews in this series. He has a fascinating scholar-eye view on blogs. But to answer your question, the type of writing we do on NAR would not be possible without blogging technology. The people who write for NAR could be considered producers in Benjaminian terms. However, I wrote "The Blogger as Producer" with a more open idea in mind. The original essay was 25 pages long. This short and general online version only introduces my proposition. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.netartreview.net/monthly/0305.3.html">http://www.netartreview.net/monthly/0305.3.html</a> TS: Much of the inspiration of self-organizational cooperative art projects is founded in their extra-institutional vitality, in finding collaborative formats for unlearning and foster performative, experimental, and engaged research that has agency. Their research output in some cases exceeds that of some small brick and mortar universities. Net Art Review is an online forum. Are you interested in the creation of networks of discourse also offline? EN: Yes, we try to negotiate the online/ offline divide. As it was previously mentioned some of the writings on events are not always immediately related to online practices. Local and global activities are becoming more connected. Web cams conversations (like this interview) allow for things to get more physical. We see each other– things get less disembodied. We are about to enter a time where the physical will become even more emphasized through new technology. GPS devices are an example of this. I am invested in trying to meet people in person whenever possible. This does not have to be at a professional event like a conference; it could simply be a meeting with somebody who happens to visit the city I live in, or vice versa. The interpersonal bond makes cultural connections much stronger in the long run. TS: You are a media artist, a facilitator and writer. Currently, you writing your Ph.D. with Lev Manovich. Your crate linkages between people. You produce artwork. Online you facilitate community around discourse. Is it easy for you to bring these different parts of your cultural practice together? EN: The artist as writer is by no means a new model. Just take Art in America, New Art Examiner, October, and Art Forum. Some of their writers play the very defined role of the artist/ critic. Our role as new media artists is more blurry. The culture of new media requires artists to function as curators, writers, critics and producers. Slowly this is changing though– I saw this when I studied at CalArts where I met Natalie Bookchin, and learned about Alexei Shulgin's work. Natalie curated shows, wrote about net art, produced artwork– all in parallels. Amy Alexander worked in a similar way. When I met her I mainly knew her piece "The Multi-Cultural Recycler." But Amy Alexander became more active as a multi-tasker. She is a founding member of runme.org, an initiative grouped around software art. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://recycler.plagiarist.org/">http://recycler.plagiarist.org/</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://runme.org">http://runme.org</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://readme.runme.org/index.php">http://readme.runme.org/index.php</a> This multi-tasking was and to an extent is born out of necessity. People who create challenging work in whichever medium (be it music or code or concrete) most often have an understanding of many of these areas. Especially in earlier online art practice, you had to create the exposure for your work or that of others. This is where a network is useful. Now we see increasing levels of specialization. Here at the University of California San Diego, new media art is now taught in the art history department– it is recognized as an art historical field. However, new media as a field of art history requires a breadth of practical knowledge. Somebody who has no practical understanding of coding will not be able to fully integrate theory with the work. You cannot develop a historical narrative about a piece without a real understanding of its back-end. You need to get your hands dirty for new media research. You have to be willing to wear many hats– it is almost like a foundational paradigm. The critical distance expected in other fields falls apart in new media research. TS: What is your take on networking– between a mafioso-like pulling of strings to get ahead with ones career and the establishment of networks for discussion there is a big difference. How do you understand this term? EN: New media scenes can function removed from the mainstream art worlds, although the lines are becoming more and more blurry. It is common knowledge that some artists who have a history as online practioners are now represented by galleries. In any case, I believe that networking is a necessity and can be productive if one does it with a good attitude. I, personally, become suspect when I sense dishonesty, and in fact I dislike people who are dishonest in their intentions. I have met people who try to "network." But it becomes quite obvious that they are not really interested in sharing ideas. They simply want to belong to a network. In the art world that means meeting the right people to get that "show" that will break you in. I do understand this as I experienced the politics of art school. I see it at openings, which, at this point in my life, I try not to attend unless a friend is having one. I am quite social and I want to meet people because I learned from experience that it gives me an opportunity to share my ideas. And ideas is what I consider my "product." In the end, I want to share, and I think that networking needs to be about topics, it needs to be honest, it needs to be about the other person. If networking focuses on the creation of work, or about research. I think the term networking may have a dirty connotation offline sometimes because it is often related with a straight-up business practice. But online it is a necessity at this point. TS: Maybe the word shmuzing better describes the type of art world social behavior that you refer to. When thinking of arts publications the Austrian magazine Springerin demonstrates that one can think of art by focusing on issues instead of the hegemonic star system with its brand name recognition. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.springerin.at/en/">http://www.springerin.at/en/</a> Networking, in its positive sense, has changed with the new technological possibilities for cooperation, online or off. With more possibilities for interconnection through technological channels from wireless enabled devices to the Internet– the question comes up how all these options are used. Do open publishing, open archives (e.g. encyclopedias), or social software foster civil society? Networks can build small temporary platforms zooming in on otherwise overlooked or purposefully ignored topics. Networks can be powerful 'collaboratories' of people with diverse backgrounds who organize around a single topic in which they all have an investment (as Ernesto Laclau describes). However, I do not suggest that all networks or collaborations are successful. EN: In the art world it is implicitly accepted that if you want something to be art it is always about self-interest. Artists want to survive. They want to be recognized. The question is how to make this self-interest productive for others. The term "self-interest" may be a bit too negative. I would suggest the term "personal interest." I can offer an analogy that relates to your concerns. I think of collaboration and networking in terms of an Afro-Cuban rumba. In a traditional rumba, like the Guaguanco, you need at least four members. One plays the Tumba (the bass in the conga drums), another the Conga (the mid-range conga drum), another will play the Quinto (the drum which improvises), while someone else will play the clave sticks (for keeping the rhythm). One of the performers will sing or they will all sing depending on the particular tune. Each drum has a specific rhythm that contributes to the overall groove, and even though the Quinto is designed to improvise, the other drummers have a chance to express themselves from time to time. They perform sporadic accents to support the soloist. Each drummer has to keep her own rhythm tight, and swinging, while others flow in different directions. Each drummer has to know and not know simultaneously where everyone is going, this is possible because they will always keep the clave within their timing. When people are introduced to rumba improvisation they learn the basic patterns. But once the group moves to a more advanced stage, they may at times become confused when they listen to how others are hitting the drums. They often want to listen, while they are expected to keep playing. Rumberos think of soloing in terms of "talking" with the drum. It is not about a specific pattern or perfected licks. It is about forming complex phrases, which include several moments of silence. The best drummers literary talk with the drum, and this throws-off even experienced musicians who are new to Rumba improvisation. Musicians in general are able to listen and play at the same time, but rumberos do it in a very particular way that is really different from the paradigms of traditional Western music. It really is a philosophical approach. Most importantly, rumberos must learn to listen to the improvisation of others. They learn to appreciate it as listeners in a traditional audience. We could dare say that they listen with a certain disinterest, while playi! ng their own groove. This is not easy to do because people are not used to "talking" at the same time that they are "listening." Each performer must learn to be an individual at the same time that she/he contributes to a collective. The drums must sound like one inseparable rhythm. Western culture is not brought up to function this way. We either listen or we speak- even trained musicians do this ideologically. Once we start to play and listen simultaneously, like the rumberos, we may be getting somewhere; then terms like "self-interest" might not have a problematic connotation, or maybe they will not be used at all. Acknowledgments: Eduardo Navas thanks Carol Hobson and the Center for Research in Computer and the Arts (CRCA) for providing an iSight camera. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://crca.ucsd.edu/">http://crca.ucsd.edu/</a> References Online Journals: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://ctheory.net">http://ctheory.net</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://fibreculture.org">http://fibreculture.org</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking">http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://nettime.org">http://nettime.org</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://neural.it">http://neural.it</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://random.exibart.com">http://random.exibart.com</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://post.openoffice.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rohrpost">http://post.openoffice.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rohrpost</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://rhizome.org">http://rhizome.org</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://sarai.net">http://sarai.net</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://subtle.net/empyre">http://subtle.net/empyre</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://switch.sjsu.edu">http://switch.sjsu.edu</a> The NetKru: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://netartreview.net/netkru.html">http://netartreview.net/netkru.html</a> Daniele Balit (Rome, IT/Paris, FR) Ana Boa-Ventura (Austin, TX, US) Linda Carroli (Brisbane, AU) Nicholas Economos (Alfred, NY, US) Peter Luining (Amsterdam, NL) Francesca De NicolÃ?â?? (Rome, IT) Ignacio Nieto (Santiago, CL) Kristen Palana (New Jersey, US) Isabel Saij (Cologne, GE/Paris, FR) Ana ValdÃ?Â©s (Sweden) Ocassional Collaborators: Furtherfield.org (London, UK) Evelyne Rogue - artcogitans.com (Paris, FR) Rumba in context: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.centralhome.com/ballroomcountry/rumba.htm">http://www.centralhome.com/ballroomcountry/rumba.htm</a> Radio: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.afrocubaweb.com/almadelbarrio.htm">http://www.afrocubaweb.com/almadelbarrio.htm</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://salsastream.com/">http://salsastream.com/</a> Afro-cuban Music: Los Papines <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.afrocubaweb.com/papines.htm">http://www.afrocubaweb.com/papines.htm</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.spun.com/music/browse-artist.jsp?productId=2491196">http://www.spun.com/music/browse-artist.jsp?productId=2491196</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.descarga.com/cgi-bin/db/20869.20?gYr4Kopj;;151">http://www.descarga.com/cgi-bin/db/20869.20?gYr4Kopj;;151</a> Others: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ibiblio.org/mao/cuba/music.html">http://www.ibiblio.org/mao/cuba/music.html</a> Amy Alexander: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://discordia.us">http://discordia.us</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://recycler.plagiarist.org/">http://recycler.plagiarist.org/</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://plagiarist.org/">http://plagiarist.org/</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://toplap.org">http://toplap.org</a> Natalie Bookchin: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://jupiter.ucsd.edu/~bookchin/">http://jupiter.ucsd.edu/~bookchin/</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.calarts.edu/~line/history.html">http://www.calarts.edu/~line/history.html</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.action-tank.org/">http://www.action-tank.org/</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.newmedia.sunderland.ac.uk/crumb/phase3/nmc_intvw_bookjack.html">http://www.newmedia.sunderland.ac.uk/crumb/phase3/nmc_intvw_bookjack.html</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://contactzones.cit.cornell.edu/artists/natalie_bookchin.html">http://contactzones.cit.cornell.edu/artists/natalie_bookchin.html</a> Blogs: Blogs and RSS Feed Search Engine <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.faganfinder.com/blogs/">http://www.faganfinder.com/blogs/</a> Blog Directory <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.blogarama.com/">http://www.blogarama.com/</a> Latin American Blogs <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.hacer.org/latinblogs.php">http://www.hacer.org/latinblogs.php</a> Theodor Adorno The Culture Industry <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0415253802/104-6656645-5714333">http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0415253802/104-6656645-5714333</a> related links: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://alum.hampshire.edu/~cmnF93/culture_reconsidered.txt">http://alum.hampshire.edu/~cmnF93/culture_reconsidered.txt</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.wright.edu/~gordon.welty/Adorno_84.htm">http://www.wright.edu/~gordon.welty/Adorno_84.htm</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://home.ddc.net/ygg/etext/adorno.htm">http://home.ddc.net/ygg/etext/adorno.htm</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/SWA/Culture_industry_1.html">http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/SWA/Culture_industry_1.html</a> Richard Barbrook, "The Hi-Tech Gift Economy," First Monday, 1999, (10 May 2004). <<a rel="nofollow" href="http://firstmonday.dk/issues/13_12/barbrook/">http://firstmonday.dk/issues/13_12/barbrook/</a>> Relevant Books: Net ARt 2.0 by Tilman BaumgÃ?â?¬rtel <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.artbook.com/3933096669.html">http://www.artbook.com/3933096669.html</a> El Tercer Umbral by Jose Luis Brea <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.casadellibro.com/fichas/fichaautores/0,1463,BREA32JOSE2LUIS,00.ht">http://www.casadellibro.com/fichas/fichaautores/0,1463,BREA32JOSE2LUIS,00.ht</a> ml Internet y Despues by Wolton Dominique <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.casadellibro.com/fichas/fichabiblio/0,1094,2900000708605,00.html">http://www.casadellibro.com/fichas/fichabiblio/0,1094,2900000708605,00.html</a>? titulo=INTERNET+%bfY+DESPUES%3F%3A+UNA+TEORIA+CRITICA+DE+LOS+NUEVOS+MEDIOS+D E+COMUNICACION Internet Art by Rachel Greene <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.thamesandhudson.com/en/1/0500203768.mxs?2996dd4fdecf95e7c50c0dbc0">http://www.thamesandhudson.com/en/1/0500203768.mxs?2996dd4fdecf95e7c50c0dbc0</a> 12859ae&0&0&0 Digital Art by Christiane Paul <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.thamesandhudson.com/en/1/0500203679.mxs?fb2d7492a18ab40ceb5888753">http://www.thamesandhudson.com/en/1/0500203679.mxs?fb2d7492a18ab40ceb5888753</a> f8432a9&0&0&0 Internet Art The online Clash of Culture and Commerce <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.fondation-langlois.org/html/e/page.php?NumPage=418">http://www.fondation-langlois.org/html/e/page.php?NumPage=418</a> Net_Condition: Art and Global Media by Peter Weibel and Timothy Druckrey <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.com.washington.edu/rccs/bookinfo.asp?ReviewID=133&BookID=115">http://www.com.washington.edu/rccs/bookinfo.asp?ReviewID=133&BookID=115</a> Information Arts by Stephen Wilson <a rel="nofollow" href="http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?tid=4244&ttype=2">http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?tid=4244&ttype=2</a> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 7. Date: 3.25.05 From: Eduardo Navas <eduardo@navasse.net> Subject: Re: Interview with Eduardo Navas As it has been a few days since I was interviewed by Trebor Scholz, I find it necessary to comment on the interview; in particular, the last question. I request Trebor Scholz to include this comment in the newmediaeducation.org website, right after my last answer and before the list of references. I also ask that he send it to other lists that received the original interview that I may not be including in this e-mail. The overall interview process was rather organic, both Trebor and I adjusted our questions and answers until we were happy with them. However, when I read the last question as it was published in its final form, I realized that my answer was not responding to Trebor's final question, but rather it was still largely left untouched extending a commentary on the "art star system," Ã?Â an element that was brought up by Trebor in previous questions when he started to talk about networking in the artworld vs. online communities. Ã?Â My commentary on "self-interest" was commenting on his original point of view on "art stars." Ã?Â As readers will notice, Trebor took this specific comment out of his final question/commentary. Ã?Â When he did this he also added a long comment on networking that set up a reasoning for my Afro-cuban analogy. Ã?Â And this makes my comment on "self-interest" rather odd in its final form. Admittedly, when I read his adjusted commentary, I decided to also adjust my rumba analogy to support the dialogue, not really knowing that my answer was becoming something else. Ã?Â I did not realize that with this I ended up turning Rumba improvisation into something exotic. This hurts me because this is a musical activity that I have practiced for over ten years. Ã?Â Had I realized this at the time, I would have pulled out my rumba analogy, but I admit I liked it and thought it made sense, at least it did for the initial question. I cannot take back the fact that I let the Rumba analogy stand in direct relation to a commentary on networking as a new media actvity. Ã?Â But I can say that I would not have used it to talk about networking in such terms had that really been the initial question. Ã?Â As it stands, I find that I can only write this comment admitting my mistake of letting the process of editing lead me to accept a position I never intended. Ã?Â This was my choice, asI approved the interview for publication. Ã?Â At this point, I find myself entitled to clarify that I do not find my analogy appropriate to Trebor's comment on networking. So how would I answer or follow up his comment on fostering a civil society? Ã?Â I would say that it all starts with basic communication. Something we lost track of at the end of the interview. Ã?Â It is ironic that I made a comment on "listening" while "playing," and while this may work for some activities such as rumba improvisaton, it certainly does not work for others. Ã?Â It is obvious that we both lost our "tune" on that last question. Ã?Â Neither the question nor the answer really correspond. Ã?Â  Best, Eduardo Navas <a rel="nofollow" href="http://navasse.net">http://navasse.net</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://netartreview.net">http://netartreview.net</a> —————– Trebor wrote: > Listening To Yourself While Playing With Others > > An interview with Eduardo Navas (adjusted by Trebor Scholz) > As part of WebCamTalk1.0 > <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.newmediaeducation.org">http://www.newmediaeducation.org</a> full thread here: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://rhizome.org/thread.rhiz?thread=16736&text=31858#31858">http://rhizome.org/thread.rhiz?thread=16736&text=31858#31858</a> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Rhizome ArtBase Exhibitions <a rel="nofollow" href="http://rhizome.org/art/exhibition/">http://rhizome.org/art/exhibition/</a> Visit the third ArtBase Exhibition "Raiders of the Lost ArtBase," curated by Michael Connor of FACT and designed by scroll guru Dragan Espenschied. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://rhizome.org/art/exhibition/raiders/">http://rhizome.org/art/exhibition/raiders/</a> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Rhizome.org is a 501©(3) nonprofit organization and an affiliate of the New Museum of Contemporary Art. Rhizome Digest is supported by grants from The Charles Engelhard Foundation, The Rockefeller Foundation, The Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts, and with public funds from the New York State Council on the Arts, a state agency. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Rhizome Digest is filtered by Kevin McGarry (kevin@rhizome.org). ISSN: 1525-9110. Volume 10, number 13. Article submissions to list@rhizome.org are encouraged. Submissions should relate to the theme of new media art and be less than 1500 words. For information on advertising in Rhizome Digest, please contact info@rhizome.org. To unsubscribe from this list, visit <a rel="nofollow" href="http://rhizome.org/subscribe">http://rhizome.org/subscribe</a>. Subscribers to Rhizome Digest are subject to the terms set out in the Member Agreement available online at <a rel="nofollow" href="http://rhizome.org/info/29.php">http://rhizome.org/info/29.php</a>. 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