There are times… when a cigar is just a cigar.
:)

On 9/4/07, M. River <mriver102@yahoo.com> wrote:

But yeah, relax. It will be alright. Let's have a cigar."


On 9/4/07, Lauren Cornell <laurencornell@rhizome.org> wrote:Hello Rhizome
Raw,

All our interns get free cigars upon arrival.
>


–
nomadic…
http://joygarnett.com

Then there are times when it is an assassination attempt on Fidel
Castro's life.

- Rob.

joy.garnett@gmail.com wrote:
> There are times… when a cigar is just a cigar.
> :)
>
> On 9/4/07, *M. River* < mriver102@yahoo.com
> <mailto:mriver102@yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> But yeah, relax. It will be alright. Let's have a cigar."
>
>
> On 9/4/07, *Lauren Cornell* <laurencornell@rhizome.org
> <mailto:laurencornell@rhizome.org>> wrote:Hello Rhizome Raw,
>
> All our interns get free cigars upon arrival.
>
>
>
> –
> nomadic…
> http://joygarnett.com

With the earthquakes, which will come, I will not let my Virginia go out
hopefully by bitterest. I, Berthold Brecht, into the bitumen cities strike
from the black forests in my mother …

(Bei den Erdbeben, die kommen werden, werde ich hoffentlich meine Virginia
nicht ausgehen lassen durch Bitterkeit. Ich, Bertolt Brecht, in die
Asphaltstadte verschlagen aus den schwarzen Waldern in meiner Mutter in
fruher Zeit.)

MTAA is good example how indifference [(in indifferent world, in indifferent
country(US),in indifferent city(NYC)]supported from indifferent art
establishment could make ‘name’…Which is
kewl,blase,decadent…superior…empty,stupid,corect measurement of one world in
collapse.

Who could resist and try to avoid they charm?

MANIK

—– Original Message —–
From: "M. River" <mriver102@yahoo.com>
To: <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 6:40 PM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Another Announcement on Raw


> For immediate release
>
> Who: M.River (aka Michael Sarff) of MTAA and Tinjail.com
>
> What: Announces his ambivalence to the “What’s Up With Rhizome Raw These
> Days Thread?”
>
> Where: New York City, Rhizome Raw, and the Interweb.
>
> When: Right now, 2007
>
> Pull quote: “Yeah, I know, Right”
>
> Statement:
> “Interesting work is being made right now using the net as a location and
> or source material for art. The conversation around this work is no longer
> focused (if it ever was) on Rhizome Raw. We planned the decentralization
> of power in the art world and now this has come back to us. The
> conversation of net art and digital art in general has spread. This is
> fine. How Raw acts as a ponit in this conversation is now the project. But
> yeah, relax. It will be alright. Let's have a cigar.”
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> __________ NOD32 2504 (20070904) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>

Hi Rob,

I see what you mean, but I also have a question. Do you think it is better
to forgive the U.S. government for that (I'm not sure if it really happened
or not, or how, I'm not informed about it) than it is to punish?

The reason I ask is that I believe there is a political route you might call
"the one superpower option" in which the U.S. is the only superpower. This
might seem extremely ugly and horrible but it also might be better than the
20th c., in which several different powers were or tried to become
superpowers. Arguably the carnage and wastage that resulted is what the
O.S.O. would try to avoid.

I also would refer to the ancient political idea of the Eumenides. This
play stated that sometimes you have to stop the revenge and punishing. I
don't want to be pollyannaish but it seems plausible that capitalism, even
globalization, could do a better job relieving poverty and and protecting
the environment if people work with it rather than against it. Co-operating
with globalization could also mean a better outcome in other ways.

Certainly I think there is something to the idea that fighting globalization
in various ways can actually make it worse, i.e. make the bad parts of it
worse.

I don't mean to single you out or ascribe beliefs to you which you may not
hold. Also I'm not sure how this relates to art. But to the extent that
art has to exist within a broader political economic reality, these issues
might be relevant. Forgiving would definitely not be a panacea, that seems
certain. Yet maybe it would be one part of a large set of options that
could help? Not sure but I am interested in ideas toward this direction
recently.

Max





>From: Rob Myers <rob@robmyers.org>
>Reply-To: Rob Myers <rob@robmyers.org>
>To: rhizome <list@rhizome.org>
>Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Another Announcement on Raw
>Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 19:00:41 +0100
>
>Then there are times when it is an assassination attempt on Fidel Castro's
>life.
>
>- Rob.
>
>joy.garnett@gmail.com wrote:
>>There are times… when a cigar is just a cigar.
>>:)
>>
>>On 9/4/07, *M. River* < mriver102@yahoo.com <mailto:mriver102@yahoo.com>>
>>wrote:
>>
>> But yeah, relax. It will be alright. Let's have a cigar."
>>
>>
>>On 9/4/07, *Lauren Cornell* <laurencornell@rhizome.org
>><mailto:laurencornell@rhizome.org>> wrote:Hello Rhizome Raw,
>>
>> All our interns get free cigars upon arrival.
>>
>>
>>
>>–
>>nomadic…
>>http://joygarnett.com
>
>+
>-> post: list@rhizome.org
>-> questions: info@rhizome.org
>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>+
>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

Max Herman wrote:

> I see what you mean, but I also have a question. Do you think it is
> better to forgive the U.S. government for that (I'm not sure if it
> really happened or not, or how, I'm not informed about it) than it is to
> punish?

In *public* life I think it is usually better to acknowledge and forgive
(or at least put behind) than to allow to fester.

Otherwise the half life of grievances would lead to universal hatred
between all people of all nations.

But this is just a quick answer to a complex question…

- Rob.

> With the earthquakes, which will come, I will not let my Virginia go out
> hopefully by bitterest. I, Berthold Brecht, etc…

den Erdbeben, die kommen werden, werde ich hoffentlich meine Virginia
> nicht ausgehen lassen durch Bitterkeit. Ich, Bertolt Brecht, in die
> Asphaltstadte verschlagen aus den schwarzen Waldern in meiner Mutter in
> fruher Zeit.)
>
> MTAA is good example how indifference [(in indifferent world, in
> indifferent country(US),in indifferent city(NYC)]supported from
> indifferent art establishment could make ‘name’…Which is
> kewl,blase,decadent…superior…empty,stupid,corect measurement of one world
> in collapse.
>
> Who could resist and try to avoid this charm?

MANIK
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: "M. River" <mriver102@yahoo.com>
> To: <list@rhizome.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 6:40 PM
> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Another Announcement on Raw
>
>
>> For immediate release
>>
>> Who: M.River (aka Michael Sarff) of MTAA and Tinjail.com
>>
>> What: Announces his ambivalence to the “What’s Up With Rhizome Raw These
>> Days Thread?”
>>
>> Where: New York City, Rhizome Raw, and the Interweb.
>>
>> When: Right now, 2007
>>
>> Pull quote: “Yeah, I know, Right”
>>
>> Statement:
>> “Interesting work is being made right now using the net as a location and
>> or source material for art. The conversation around this work is no
>> longer
>> focused (if it ever was) on Rhizome Raw. We planned the decentralization
>> of power in the art world and now this has come back to us. The
>> conversation of net art and digital art in general has spread. This is
>> fine. How Raw acts as a ponit in this conversation is now the project.
>> But
>> yeah, relax. It will be alright. Let's have a cigar.”
>> +
>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>> __________ NOD32 2504 (20070904) Information __________
>>
>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>

—– Original Message —–
From: "manik" <manik@sbb.co.yu>
To: "M. River" <mriver102@yahoo.com>; <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Another Announcement on Raw


> With the earthquakes, which will come, I will not let my Virginia go out
> hopefully by bitterest. I, Berthold Brecht, into the bitumen cities strike
> from the black forests in my mother …
>
> (Bei den Erdbeben, die kommen werden, werde ich hoffentlich meine Virginia
> nicht ausgehen lassen durch Bitterkeit. Ich, Bertolt Brecht, in die
> Asphaltstadte verschlagen aus den schwarzen Waldern in meiner Mutter in
> fruher Zeit.)
>
> MTAA is good example how indifference [(in indifferent world, in
> indifferent country(US),in indifferent city(NYC)]supported from
> indifferent art establishment could make ‘name’…Which is
> kewl,blase,decadent…superior…empty,stupid,corect measurement of one world
> in collapse.
>
> Who could resist and try to avoid they charm?
>
> MANIK
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: "M. River" <mriver102@yahoo.com>
> To: <list@rhizome.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 6:40 PM
> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Another Announcement on Raw
>
>
>> For immediate release
>>
>> Who: M.River (aka Michael Sarff) of MTAA and Tinjail.com
>>
>> What: Announces his ambivalence to the “What’s Up With Rhizome Raw These
>> Days Thread?”
>>
>> Where: New York City, Rhizome Raw, and the Interweb.
>>
>> When: Right now, 2007
>>
>> Pull quote: “Yeah, I know, Right”
>>
>> Statement:
>> “Interesting work is being made right now using the net as a location and
>> or source material for art. The conversation around this work is no
>> longer
>> focused (if it ever was) on Rhizome Raw. We planned the decentralization
>> of power in the art world and now this has come back to us. The
>> conversation of net art and digital art in general has spread. This is
>> fine. How Raw acts as a ponit in this conversation is now the project.
>> But
>> yeah, relax. It will be alright. Let's have a cigar.”
>> +
>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>> __________ NOD32 2504 (20070904) Information __________
>>
>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>

There are times… when a cigar is just a cigar.
:)

On 9/4/07, M. River wrote:

But yeah, relax. It will be alright. Let's have a cigar."


On 9/4/07, Lauren Cornell wrote:Hello Rhizome
Raw,

All our interns get free cigars upon arrival.

Those things will kill ya

A quick answer but excellently stated Rob!

It's like the half-life of the sins etc. would just make life impossible.
It's a very very complex and tough problem however I completely agree.

>From: Rob Myers <rob@robmyers.org>
>Reply-To: Rob Myers <rob@robmyers.org>
>To: rhizome <list@rhizome.org>
>Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Another Announcement on Raw
>Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:24:50 +0100
>
>Max Herman wrote:
>
>>I see what you mean, but I also have a question. Do you think it is
>>better to forgive the U.S. government for that (I'm not sure if it really
>>happened or not, or how, I'm not informed about it) than it is to punish?
>
>In *public* life I think it is usually better to acknowledge and forgive
>(or at least put behind) than to allow to fester.
>
>Otherwise the half life of grievances would lead to universal hatred
>between all people of all nations.
>
>But this is just a quick answer to a complex question…
>
>- Rob.
>+
>-> post: list@rhizome.org
>-> questions: info@rhizome.org
>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>+
>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

http://playdamage.org/50.html

–

m.river smiles and shurgs
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1158/1323749963_f2eb7742de_o.jpg

Before experiencing playdamage.org that you should partake in the pipe, bong
or whatever smoking device you see fit for the occasion and enjoy.
http://3.content.collegehumor.com/d1/ch6/2/1/collegehumor.0a464fd219c2f5222b
ec1b6105945dac.jpg

Heroin, crystal meth, crack and any other pharmaceutical recreational not
recommended.


> From: curt cloninger <curt@lab404.com>
> Reply-To: curt cloninger <curt@lab404.com>
> Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 20:02:20 -0400
> To: <list@rhizome.org>
> Subject: Re: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Another Announcement on Raw
>
> http://playdamage.org/50.html
>
> –
>
> m.river smiles and shurgs
> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1158/1323749963_f2eb7742de_o.jpg
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

M. River wrote:

> m.river smiles and shurgs
> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1158/1323749963_f2eb7742de_o.jpg

So it's true: the internet is not a series of pipes.

- Rob.

Ce n'est pas une pipe



On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:10:58 +0100
Rob Myers <rob@robmyers.org> wrote:

> M. River wrote:
>
> > m.river smiles and shurgs
> > http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1158/1323749963_f2eb7742de_o.jpg
>
> So it's true: the internet is not a series of pipes.
>
> - Rob.
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz -> give:
> http://rhizome.org/support +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>


–
Robert Spahr
http://www.robertspahr.com

"If we understand the mechanism and motives of the
group mind, is it not possible to control and
regiment the masses according to our will without
their knowing about it?" – Edward L. Bernays

RECAP
http://www.recap.co.uk/
MANIK,SEPTEMBER 2007.
PS: http://www.recap.com/

—– Original Message —–
From: "M. River" <mriver102@yahoo.com>
To: <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Another Announcement on Raw


> recap…
>
> M.River
> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1158/1323749963_f2eb7742de_o.jpg
>
> Rob M
> So it's true: the internet is not a series of pipes.
>
> Robert S
> Ce n'est pas une pipe
>
> +++
>
> M.River adds
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2004_Loud_Pipes_Save_Lives.jpg
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> __________ NOD32 2511 (20070907) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>