On Thu, 16 May 2002 13:32:36 -0400
"David Goldschmidt" <dgoldsch@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> hey max,
>
> intersting that you picked up on the Christian connection
> to this author.

Well "the humiliation of the Word" pretty much gives it
away for free on Sunday.

Dig this: "If You Are the Son of God," 1991 by Ellul

http://www.jesusradicals.com/main/library/ellul/suffering/suffering.html

> Since most of his books are out of print a group call
> Jesus Radicals have
> put them on the Internet for free. curious minds should
> take a look.
> http://www.jesusradicals.com/main/library.html
>
> according to another listserv that I belong to (media
> ecology listserv)
> Ellul he is very well known among media academics.

Oh I've had my fill of those chaplains. Etzioni, Lerner,
Virilio, Manovich, they are all redundant for me at this
point.

From here to the eternity of downfall,

Max Herman
www.gimmeanobelprizewiththat.net

++

>
> best,
> david goldschmidt
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: "Max Herman" <maxherman@zipmail.com>
> To: "David Goldschmidt" <dgoldsch@tampabay.rr.com>;
> <list@rhizome.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: The Humiliation of the Word
>
>
> > On Wed, 15 May 2002 22:16:49 -0400
> > "David Goldschmidt" <dgoldsch@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> > > thought some on this list may find this of interest
> …
> > >
> > > The Humiliation of the Word
> > > In this book Ellul argues that "Images" are limited
> to
> > > the realm of the material and the practical and
> cannot
> > > probe the depths of human experience,
> >
> > Hey Dave, what's up. Ezekiel Bakal from the Genius
> 2000
> > Video First Edition mentioned this. He is a former
> > paratrooper in the Israeli Defense Forces, now
> somewhat
> > overweight and hanging out in coffeeshops in
> Minneapolis.
> > He said, in touchingly broken English, that
> "Christianity
> > is all image, image," but that the Jewish tradition
> was
> > based on rhetoric, argumentation, and Talmudic
> citation.
> > That was his explanation for the disproportionately
> high
> > number of Jewish Nobel Prize Winners. He was trying
> to
> > argue that it isn't genetics but intellectual method
> and
> > culture.
> >
> > Anyway, off to search Google on this puppy, this
> > Humiliation of the Word puppy.
> >
> > I would genuinely appreciate some committal posts
> today.
> > Posts with energy, posts with integrity, love, stress
> and
> > storm, cardiovascular posts. I hope I am the only one
> > with this disease but it's my world, you only live in
> it.
> >
> > For one topic, let's try the famous movie "From Here to
> > Eternity" which I saw on cable TV last night. Anyone
> > think it relates to Genius 2000? Ernest Borgnine
> rapes
> > and tortures Frank Sinatra (like in Sleepers, the
> > Shawshank Redemption, and Joan of Arc); Burt Lancaster
> > hooks up with that blond lady, like in "The Postman
> Always
> > Rings Twice"; Montgomery Clift tries to hook up with
> > Olivia de Havilland like in Fassbinder's Marriage of
> Maria
> > Braun; Captain Holmes gets kicked out of the army for
> > letting his soldiers box (Stripes, Paths of Glory, and
> > that one Army movie with Tom Cruise, Demi Moore, and
> Jack
> > Nicholson); they all get killed in the end because
> it's
> > Pearl Harbor and all.
> >
> > It's a movie about transgression, loyalty, power, war,
> and
> > love. I think it is the origin of almost all movies
> since
> > then.
> >
> > How does it relate to Genius 2000? I'd say across the
> > board it relates. I'm Montgomery Clift I think. Not
> Burt
> > Lancaster. Who are you in the movie?
> >
> > It's also bugging me what someone said for the G2K
> survey
> > at www.electrichands.com/genius2000, that Lesson Two
> is
> > "hyper-corrective drivel." They signed it "Cary
> > Peppermint" but I'm pretty certain he didn't write it.
> > Cary, are you onlist and not filtering me? Was that
> > really you who filled out the survey? If not, I
> wonder
> > why someone else would fill it out that way. Was it
> you
> > Judson, or maybe Twhid? I'm just curious.
> >
> > Response # 20 also says that I Max Herman am "another
> > wannabe iconoclast," which hurts my feelings, and that
> the
> > year 2000 was "a time to reflect on the mass
> incapacity of
> > the general population." I don't know if that's true
> or
> > not. I do know that hardly any net artists would
> answer
> > Lesson Two in time for the First Edition, and I asked
> them
> > all to do it. But they wouldn't do it.
> >
> > to go beyond the
> > > surface of reality. Therefore a society based on
> image
> > > will be a shallow society, incapable of finding deep
> > > truths.
> >
> > Brad Brace calls it "chasing the image" in the 20th
> > Kentury, or, "the art museum is not your friend." But
> > Brad Brace is an unethical outsider who is hated by
> the
> > academic net.art powerplayers such as the Syracuse
> > University New Media Art Department.
> >
> > A society based upon "Word" however, has been
> > > debased inour culture, but is able to cnvey truth
> like
> > > images can't. It is open to interpetation and is
> > > flexible.
> >
> > Well, checking my G2K calculator I see I do not
> entirely
> > agree. Who wrote this, and why should I care? I have
> a
> > feeling I will have to dis this writer sooner or
> later.
> > Logocentrism is out and log2kocentrism has replaced
> it.
> > On my breakfast table anyway.
> >
> > So, anyone want to argue in a committal, lusty, risky
> > manner? I'll take on every comer. The quick brown
> fox
> > jumps over the lazy dogs.
> >
> > I'm placing a lot of topics in one email for personal
> > reasons.
> >
> > Liza, re Bernini and transgression: I am a minor
> expert in
> > Bernini. Perhaps you don't believe me, or think I'm a
> > hypocrite for saying both that experts are overrated
> and I
> > am one, but I am one. I really got a big repertoire
> in
> > Bernini.
> >
> > My question to Liza is: Do you think transgression is
> a
> > personal event, or a social one? When you say that
> > Bernini's St. Theresa is what you think of when you
> think
> > of transgression, do you mean that when you see
> Berninian
> > qualities in contemporary work you consider the work
> > transgressive? Is Bernini's transgression-machine
> still
> > operable in today's hyper-hyperized media weltgeist?
> >
> > Is transgression always different, always the same,
> always
> > individual, or always historical?
> >
> > From Here to Eternity is also about transgression and
> > punishment.
> >
> > Bernini's bust with intricate bee is also relevant to
> my
> > feelings and thoughts about transgression in his St.
> > Theresa. Bernini was what they call "a bravura
> > sculptor"–his technique was so perfect and virtuosic
> that
> > it has perhaps never been equalled, even by Michel
> Agnolo.
> > He was the Michael Jordan of shaping stone. He was
> the
> > guy who would do the impossible.
> >
> > I recommend everyone who hasn't seen the bust by
> Bernini
> > with the honeybee brooch go google it, even though
> using
> > Google is reactionary. I'm reacting in your
> direction.
> >
> > Some fluxus guy had a Fluxus koan/event/recipe/image
> which
> > was a simple question: "If you had a dream that you
> were
> > a genius, what would you want to remember from the
> dream?"
> > Now that is serious Fluxus art, not because I said so
> but
> > because it's famous and in books and all.
> >
> > I also wonder how Bernini relates to the internet. One
> > might argue that he does not.
> >
> > I also want to reiterate my support and admiration of
> Eryk
> > Salvaggio's recent "Six Rules for a New Net Art" and
> > "ESMOML." I think they are superior to their
> > alternatives. Celebrate the man.
> >
> > I also am glad that NN appears to have survived the
> > memocidal klownfuckers at Cycling 74. That is great
> news,
> > an example of a great writer succeeding. It will also
> > help my own future career of proving why NN is perhaps
> a
> > greater writer than Dostoevsky or Shakespeare. I want
> to
> > prove that.
> >
> > In other news, I'm dismayed. I told a new G2K
> supporter to
> > go look at restlessculture.net, and she loved it. She
> > thought it was one of the coolest sites she'd seen. I
> > felt bad, hyper-corrective, sexually deformed, you
> name
> > it. Then it went away; go figure.
> >
> > I also want to argue with Judson a little bit. Judson,
> you
> > want to argue? For those who think I am a
> professional
> > loser, rest assured I will be bringing in more
> marketing
> > information as the year goes on.
> >
> > I am open to any and all ideas as to what the Genius
> 2000
> > Network should do for the rest of 2002.
> >
> > My current priorities are 1) mail out as many dubs as
> > possible; 2) mail out my band Shlagel's CD and try to
> play
> > out as well as go on the road and on TV, 3) finish my
> book
> > about G2K for WW release Jan. 1 2003, 4) establish
> > genius2000.net as a blue-chip url and incorporate
> myself
> > for financial reasons; and 5) save the entire world
> from
> > imminent war and desolation.
> >
> > I am also in great need of immediate financial
> assistance
> > in the $2k-$5k range. If anyone has any nurturing,
> caring
> > advice how I can get this level of cash please contact
> me
> > offlist.
> >
> > Your friend,
> >
> > Max Herman
> > www.electrichands.com/genius2000
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ________________________________________________
> > Don't E-Mail, ZipMail! http://www.zipmail.com/
>

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